Building Authrnetic Communities MOO Transcript

Transcript for MOO Session on Building Authentic Communities in Virtual Spaces

May 10, 1995

Marcy shows slide #1.

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CWC95/ACW Online Session

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Authentic Communities in Virtual Spaces

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francois has 8:05 pm

Marcy shows slide #2.

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Scholars who do much of their work online - - both
research and teaching - - have begun to embrace the
notion that there is a community out here in
cyberspace. Bound by common interests to other
people who are widely dispersed geographically,
denizens of the net often speak of the relief from
isolation and the stimulating conversation provided
by electronic communication.

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Flame_Guest materializes out of thin air.

Marcy shows slide #3.

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And yet, "community" is itself a term borrowed from
Real Life (whatever *that* is) and ported into
cyberspace.
While it evokes a certain set of pretty widely shared
images, it does not adequately describe what goes on in
cyberspace. 'Net communities are as unlike their
physical
counterparts as they are like them: unlike face- to- face
communities, the net enables conversations to continue
unbounded by time and space; participants are not
obligated
to one another in the same way that they are in physical
communities; and the elaborate systems of social
conventions
which regularize and regulate behavior in face- to- face
interaction do not exist on the net.

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Marcy shows slide #4.

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Our task tonight will be to explore the ways in which
life on the 'net changes, expands, and/or constricts
our notions of community. How does the freedom the
Internet affords us push us to come to new, richer
understandings of what it means to be in community?
In what ways do the lack of restraints in cyberspace
restrict the communities which grow there?

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Marcy shows slide #5.

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Please be aware that tonight's session is being logged.
At the Computers and Writing Conference in El Paso,
participants in a pre- conference workshop will use this
text as part of a larger text they will create, a text on
communities in cyberspace. We will e- mail all
participants
and ask for permission to use your e- words; if you have
logged on as a guest, please e- mail Marcy Bauman at

marcyb@umd.umich.edu

with your name & your guest identity so we can contact
you.
(That address will be repeated at the end of the
session.)

We now pause briefly for introductions.
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Leslie is Leslie Harris, Susquehanna University, Pennsylvania
SusanL is Susan Lang, Wilkes University
traci is Traci Gardner, The Daedalus Group
Tari is Tari Fanderclai, Boston, MA
judi is judi kirkpatrick, kapiolani community college, honolulu
Locke is Locke Carter, University of Texas
Eric is Eric Crump, university of missouri & other assorted
assemblies
Spif materializes out of thin air.
Gerry says, "is from Suffolk Community College in N.Y."
cath is Catherine Spann, U of Arkansas @ Little rock
janetc says, "Janet Cross Csun"
Spif waves.
Neon_Guest materializes out of thin air.
SCog is Sharon Cogdill, St. Cloud State University, MInnesota,
and she waves at what strikes her as her community.
Spif is from the University of Missouri - Columbia.
janetc smiles at SCog.
Marcy waves to all.
Turquoise_Guest says, ""Andy Schoch from A
"
SCog smiles back at janetc.
francois is CJ Stival, Wayne State U
Marcy always has the illusion that y'all are in a room somehwere
& she's the only one actually logged on . . .
cath agrees with Marcy
janetc grins at you.
francois looks at the room, crowded with people watching tv with
him
seth says, "Fire, Fire!"
SCog says, "if youall are in my room, I'd better get my pants
on."
Neon_Guest coughs
Leslie laughs
Gerry says, "and yet I am beginning to get a sense that I know
most of you regulars"
francois hopes everyone like Clint Eastwood
janetc dresses herself as well.
Leslie isn't sure he agrees with the definition of RL communities
in those slides
NikkiC walks through the door.
Tari says, "i always picture most of us in a room and then if
anyone is uninvolved or idle or i think they're wads or
something, i just picture them at consoled outside the window"
janetc blushes.
You say, "Yeah, it's amazing how I feel like I know people I've
never seen."
SCog says, "I moved to minnesota 1.5 years ago, from new england.
I feel more connected here than i did there. Nobody there even
did email."
You say, "Leslie, what do you mean?"
francois . o O ( wads? )
Tari says, "not something i invented; just something i realized
one day i always do."
Tari says, "consoles, not consoled"
Leslie says, "How are we "obligated to each other" in F2F
interactions?"
Gerry says, "what's really interesting is when you've know
someone on the net and then meet them. Doesn't alwaus conform to
you picture"
Neon_Guest says, "A presumption of courtesy?"
You say, "I think we're obligated by small acts of kindness,
unavoidable encounters, things like that."
Flame_Guest says, "I'll try again- - too much lag (john O'Connor)"
francois nods to Gerry, a big A- men to that!
SCog nods Gerry. It's fun.
SusanL [to Leslie]: Obligated to respond , perhaps, to whaterver
is said?
Marcy waves flame.
Flame_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Flame_Guest.
Marcy nods SusanL.
Tari says, "obligated to be reasonably polite (most of the
time)?"
Leslie says, "I'm still not sure I see a sense of obligation."
Locke says, "once I've seen someone's workspace, it ruins my
mental picture of them in cyberspace, although that reality fades
as time passes"
Marcy giggles.
Spif says, "has anyone here read _Silicon_Snake_Oil_ by Cliff
Stoll?"
Janice [GPC] materializes out of thin air.
Turquoise_Guest says, "say "Leslie, well we hv
"
francois is inclined to agree with Les, but would like to hear
his thinking on this (so to speak)
SCog says, "I'm a victorianist, and I'm in a more coherent and
cohesive community now, in minnesota, where I know only 1
victiorianist in the flesh, than I was before."
Turquoise_Guest says, ""Sorry- - don't know what I'm doing with
this tech . . .""
Tari says, "i dunno if obligation is it...more like binding
conventions"
Eric [to Spif]: "no, but I can't turn around without seeing
references to it. you read it yet?
Gerry says, "or when you've met then first and then encounter
them on the net. Now you already have a picture and you get to
know them in a different fashion,"
Leslie accepts certain rules of behavior established by the
community, but isn't that true in cyberspace as well, or are the
rules different?
Spif [to Eric]: not yet. Greg Foster used a quote from it for
the Essay Exam he gave in class yesterday.
You say, "I think there are things IRL which make obligations."
Eric [to turquiose]: "not to worry. we're not too sure either
francois [tari]: but there are conventions here (more or less
binding) as well, as in rl
Lavender_Guest materializes out of thin air.
janetc feels obligated not to eat raw garlic before conferecing
f2f.
Neon_Guest [to S"When we see a "when we see a face we make some
quick judgements- - alive or dead- - human or not- - friend of
foe- - preditor or prey (or is that pray?)
You say, "I ran into someone on the way to the bus stop . . . and
gave her a ride."
francois insists on raw garlic for f2f (a joy to behold!)
Tari [to francois]: yeah, i agree...i just think that they're
sometimes about different things
Spif says, "Cliff Stoll, a man who's been on the internet
virtually since its inception, and who has written books about it
before, seems to think that it is dangerous to education and
other social institutions because it lacks warmth or human
kindness."
francois [tari]: indeed indeed
SCog says, "i was in publishing 10 years ago. I knew people on
the phone and never met them f2f. Is this so diferent?"
Spif says, "that's the general idea behind his book
_Silicon_Snake_Oil_"
Tari [to francoi]: though i'm not sure i can articulate the
distinction i feel
Leslie [to Neon_Guest]: But don't we have similar reactions to
MOO players?
Marcy thinks there's plenty of warmth & human kindness out here.
Gerry says, "Ifor one have found lots of warmth & kindness. Maybe
even more than face to face"
Leslie smiles and wouldn't mind some warmth reflected this way.
;- )
Janice agrees with Marcy, again.
Tari says, "is that eceptive, though?"
SCog smiles warmly at leslie.
Tari says, "uh, deceptive?"
Gerry says, "back at you Leslie"
Marcy smiles warmly at Leslie.
Leslie laughs
francois [tari]: that? what? the warmth reflected?
Janice warmly smiles at Leslie.
Neon_Guest [to Leslie] but we don't have those facial clues that
a huge part of our brain is programmed to interpret.
Spif [to SCog]: Mr. Stoll would argue that there's a difference
between professional relationships and personal relationships. I
don't agree with him, but it's a definite candidate for a Devil's
Advocate argument.
Tari [to francoi]: yeah
Leslie nods to Neon_guest
cath says, "The warmth & kindness is in the people we interact
with here...sign on when noone's aounnd, it's pretty sterile, but
when a crowd gathers, it's community/"
Leslie nods to cath
Spif [to cath]: that's my argument
Gerry says, "Cath has got it"
francois [tari]: I think it is, the deception of rl warmth, but
perhaps that cynical old me
You say, "In last month's Utne reader, someone said that to have
community, you have to have a shared sense of adversity."
Leslie says, "So- - do you think crowds gather more here than IRL?"
Eric wonders if mr stoll has heard of the term reciprocity?
Spif says, "warmth and human kindness, and all of the rest of the
stuff essential to personal relationships, is not inherent to any
medium"
Turquoise_Guest says, ""No question this is community, but any
better thanre real world?""
Leslie [to Marcy]: Why adversity?
janetc [to Neon_Guest]: But we do a lot more hugging in VR.
SusanL [to Spif]: Didn't Stoll have some article in the NY Times
this weekend, something about getting off the net and taking back
his real life?
Neon_Guest says, "Or a shared sense of purpose."
Leslie agrees with Neon
Spif [to SusanL]: perhaps, that's the first I've heard of it
though.
Tari says, "i'm not convinced it's fair to compare this to what
we call community in the real words."
SCog says, "we do a lot of laughing out loud and falling down,
too."
francois [janetc]: but that relates to our own rl cultural
conventions, the hugging
Tari says, "real world"
Tari says, "someone shoot my typist. please."
Leslie smiles. Yeah- - I'd never talk to Tari IRL. ;- )
janetc smiles at SCog.
Gerry says, "Eris"
You say, "Not sure why . . . but he (it was a he) used the
example of people traveling in the winter where he lives . . . if
somebody's car breaks down, you help them, 'cuz if you don't they
die. That makes things different."
Gerry says, "Eric is the one who always falls down"
francois [janetc]: in France, for ex., one quite normal hugs
friends on a regular basis (those cwazy Fwench!)
Tari [to Leslie]: well, that goes without saying
Tari eyes herself warily.
Leslie nods to marcy
Tari giggles.
Leslie smiles
Lavender_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Lavender_Guest.
Spif says, "A lot of what convinces me that the net works is
simply the fact that people defend it so vehemently. If it
wasn't capable of generating real emotional attachments in people
I doubt people would care about the internet as much as they do."
janetc [to francois]: But how many stangers?
Eric falls down for gerry
You say, "We don't HAVE to be there for each other in that way."
janetc giggles at Eric [GPC].
Marcy is acutely aware iof how much net kindness she's received
in the past 60 minutes . . .
Leslie did find that during last year's winter in PA. We had
such an awful winter. When someone skidded off the road (as I
did twice), lots of people stopped to help. It did make me feel
like I "belonged".
Spif says, "I think Stoll's argument is solely based on two
assumptions:"
vivian materializes out of thin air.
janetc constantly hugs ppl she doesn't know.
Spif says, "1. The internet is not in a state of constant
evolution."
janetc says, "In VR."
Turquoise_Guest tries something new
francois [janetc]: the term stranger applied to MOO is different
than irl
Turquoise_Guest thought that was cool
You say, "And it's a belonging based solely on georgraphy, eh,
Leslie?"
vivian waves hi and sends everyone a cheery smile.
SCog says, "in RL my relatives call perfect strangers 'darling' -
or 'darlin' '."
judi thinks it lies more in a shared sense of venture and
discovery of likeminded [well sorta] people she never would ever,
ever have known before
janetc [to francois]: In what way?
Gerry says, "can someone explain IRL?"
Neon_Guest says, "When we say, Keep in touch, we're really
thinking about touch at some level."
francois cannot explain irl, too bizarre here
traci [to Gerry]: In Real LIfe
janetc nods to judi.
Spif says, "2. Stoll's approach to the internet, and what he
invests in it, are the same as how other people approach it and
what they invest in it."
You say, "IRL=in real life."
Leslie [to Marcy]: It was more of a sense of common struggle.
We're all in this lousy winter together, so we all need to help
one another.
SusanL says, "no we don't Have to be here on the net, but the
fact is that we continue to gather, same time, smae place(?)
which strikes me as being some type of "community.""
Gerry says, "murmers thank you"
francois [janetc]: well, irl, strangers need to be introduced, or
can introduce themselves but...
You say, "And maybe if you help people you don't particularly
like, it helps you find ways to work with them on other levels."
Gerry says, "I've even given up watching the Knicks, but I am
listening"
francois [janetc]: they are not necessarily less strange(r) and
may not likely hug, whereas...
janetc [to francois]: But i introduce ppl to each other all the
time VR.
Spif says, "the internet, like any other aspect of life, will
give you a return on whatever you invest in it. you will only
find what you want in it."
Leslie says, "One thing different about this environment- - you're
not always jockeying for who gets to speak, for who "takes the
floor"."
You say, "Oh, yeah, there';s community here, no doubt . . . but
what kind? How does it change our preceptions of f2f community?"
janetc agrees with Spif.
Spif says, "if Mr. Stoll looks for coldness and impersonality on
the net, he'll surely find it. likewise, if someone else looks
for warmth and human kindness on the net, they'll find it just as
easily."
Eric has disconnected.
francois [janetc]: the MOO relations tend to become unstrange my
mere proximity, and communication
cath nods spif
Neon_Guest [to janetc]IRL I can never remember names
janetc [to Spif]: The ole Buddha story.
francois nods to janetc, true, true
janetc nods to Spif.
Janice wonders if this crowd is special in its sense of
community. Perhaps other disciplines, other places are less
congenial.
SusanL nods Spif
Spif says, "hell, if I look for coldness and impersonality in the
world of f2f society, I'll find it"
cath suspects this crowd IS special
Leslie has noticed, though, that he's shyer in F2F interactions
than in VR interactions
vivian [to Janice]: I'm sure each community has its own
personality, just as each class we teach does.
Gerry says, " I guess it's a connc connectivnesws"
francois nods to Les, though didn't notice it himself!
SCog nods leslie. me too.
cath there's no time to inhibit yourself here
Neon_Guest says, "F2F singals can be hotile."
Leslie says, "Perhaps it's easier to accept someone when you're
not dealing so much with the physical, and with all the
stereotypes we have about bodies, etc."
You say, "How do you know that you fit in in Cyberspace? What
cues do you get from others?"
Turquoise_Guest says, "why does this space have to inpact upon
f2f? I never expect to see you people outside this space
mnecessairily""
Neon_Guest says, "That's hostile."
Spif [to Leslie]: it's been argued that online interaction is
less dangerous than f2f. whether that's a positive or negative
aspect of it is arguable.
janetc smiles at Leslie.
calypso materializes out of thin air.
Pinstriped_Guest materializes out of thin air.
francois [turquoise]: well many of us will encounter each other,
through academic association if nothing else
Tari says, "calyso! ltns!"
Gerry says, "wonders if the security is more of a gender
thing???"
Tari +p
calypso waves to all
vivian [to Spif]: I think it's less dangerous in some ways...but
I know people who are terrified of connecting on line and who
feel terribly uncomfortable on a moo.
janetc waves to calypso.
SusanL says, "Possibly we know that we're fitting in when we do
receive responses to our own thoughts, questions, etc."
Spif nods at vivian.
Leslie thinks that people worry a little less about the
consequences of what they say. A person across the country can't
do too much to respond to an offensive comment.
Pinstriped_Guest (#688) is currently connected from
dorsai.dorsai.org.
Leslie says, "Well- - I've found that with my students, anyway."
Turquoise_Guest says, "to francois true, but are that space and
this related?"
Marcy agrees with Leslie
Spif [to vivian]: the _interaction_ is less dangerous, but the
technology is still intimidating
Leslie says, "They're immature, and so they take advantage of a
feeling of not being fully responsible for what they say."
janetc [to Leslie]: At the same time the interpersoanla
reacctions are quite intense.
Tari [to Leslie]: though after they're on n the receiving end a
time or two, i've found they think harder about what they say
francois [turquoise]: indeed they are: *this* space MediaMOO is
explicitly a research MOO
Leslie nods to janetc
You say, "Do you think that's immaturity?"
Leslie nods to Tari
janetc [to Leslie]: I remeber the first time I tried to talk on a
moo.
Tari says, "maybe it's their way of testing the water, marcy?"
vivian [to Spif]: Youre right. the people who are intimidated by
the technology or even by the simple skill of typing have a
harder time on line.
janetc says, "Boy was my face red!"
Leslie nods to Tari again. Students like to test limits.
Leslie says, "They also like to go beyond limits."
You say, "I think they don't know what they're doing. They get
offensive because they don't expect to be heard."
Leslie [to janetc]: Why was your face red?
Pinstriped_Guest says, "can a moo be local for students?""
Gerry says, "tells Janet that my face is still red from the
typos"
SCog says, "some of mine wouldn't know a limit if it bit them."
janetc says, "Like this."
KarlaK materializes out of thin air.
Leslie laughs at SCog's comment
Marcy had a few limitless types.
Eric has connected.
janetc blushes.
francois nods yep to Pinstriped, depending on the site
Spif [to vivian]: that's why people who work with integrating
information technology into education are part of an important
movement. we have to reduce the gap between the information
haves and have- nots
vivian says, "I think a certain kind of thought process helps
too...I've wondered if it has to do with how certain people
conceptualize language."
francois [spif]: A bit A- men to that!
Neon_Guest says, "Hostility can come from their need to
compensate for embarassment."
Leslie [to vivian]: Huh?
Pinstriped_Guest says, "how francois""
Tari says, "thing about classes on muds is that it's different
than a single person entering a community...you take a whole herd
and dump them in at once and it's hard for them to feel a sense
of community cuz the community doesn't necessarily exist at al
l yet"
SusanL nods Neon
janetc [to Leslie]: The anguish of being lost...the
embarrassment...
Marcy nods tari
SCog nods tari.
Leslie nods to Tari
francois [pinstriped]: there are programs, I've heard, that can
set up MOO type, real- time discussion sites, and...
vivian nods to spif...sometimes requiringeveryone to participate
breaks the ice.
Leslie [to janetc]: The nausea!
You say, "So there are no norms for them at first."
Leslie smiles
Gerry says, "shouts wait, wait , wait. Has anyone felt hostility
here????"
cath says, "But that's also true in a f2f class (to tari)"
Leslie causes janetc to fall down laughing.
Spif [to Tari]: community develops, though. when you dump a
bunch of students into a classroom the first day, there's no
community either. it develops over time.
Janice [to Tari]: And that community doesn't necessarily exist in
its own classroom either.
Spif [to Gerry]: here specifically, or in cyberspace?
francois [pinstriped]: and the MOO program itself can be imported
to a large enough database
Gerry says, "this MOO!"
francois [gerry]: Here? not tonight! (not yet!)
Neon_Guest [to Gerry] Only embarassment, so far.
You say, "But classrooms are highly regulated."
SusanL [to vivian]: or adds to the insecurity, breeds hostility.
reactions can be really intense, i've found.
You say, "They've spent lotsa time learning to deal w/
classrooms."
Tari says, "sure, it's the same thing in a lot of ways, but that
doesn't negate the point"
Turquoise_Guest says, "to Gerry well, you're getting hostile a
bit"
Leslie says, "Hmm. You know- - one thing I've discovered in
teaching (that's very hard, in fact) is the need to create a
feeling of community in the classroom."
vivian [to SusanL]: Yes...intense both ways.
Tari says, "and, they...what marcy said."
Spif [to Gerry]: no, no hostility here that I've noticed. why?
Pinstriped_Guest says, "as an English teacher I could set up a
Moo about a piece of Literaturre?"
Leslie [to Spif]: Yeah- - no hostility. Well, take that, you so
and so! ;- )
francois [gerry]: but in some other MOOsites, on different
occasions, sure
Leslie smiles
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: yup yup, that would be cool
Neon_Guest [to Leslie] Common purpose or common adversary can
help.
janetc nods to Pinstriped_Guest.
You say, "I had some nasty hostility in a class this semester."
Gerry says, "well, folks have been speaking about hostility and i
have not , in my very limited experience her on thios moo felty
any"
francois [pinstriped]: sure... it's been done frequently, some
folks here use it to teach composition
Leslie had some hostility emerge in my class too
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: i've seen a few mud areas that
classes have built based on books
vivian [to March]: in a class on a MOO?
janetc [to Marcy]: How so?
vivian . o O ( March (sorry) )
Leslie says, "On a MOO and IRL, in two different classes for me"
SusanL nods Leslie. I've have a trad. class that never
extablished a sense of community (that I could see) it's been a
strange experience to teach in it.
francois defers to Les
Pinstriped_Guest says, "I'm new to this inf act this is my first,
now I need to ask stupid questions so be patient. "
Spif [to Leslie]: I think informality helps that. the teachers
that can joke and humble themselves before a class are the ones
that cultivate a strong sense of community among the students.
You say, "On e- mail. Nasty stuff written by a homophobe, and
there was a gay kid in the class, and he dropped."
Leslie nods to Spif
Tari [to Marcy]: ow
janetc hugs Pinstriped_Guest warmly.
francois [pinstriped]: ask away!
Marcy feels REAL guilty.
francois grins to the Pinstriped One
Leslie had a major altercation, partly caused because we were
reading James Baldwin
janetc nods to Spif.
You say, "Race, Leslie?"
vivian [to Marcy]: Did you ever find out why the student felt
free to act that way....
Pinstriped_Guest says, " hOw does one start a moo?"
Spif [to Marcy]: we had a student drop one of our computerized
classes because of technophobia. I think the key here is
intervention, but it's a touchy situation regardless.
Leslie says, "We had one African- American student in the class,
and reading Baldwin made her (and all the white students too)
*very* uncomfortable."
You say, "No, Vivian, although I talked to the gay kid a lot."
Turquoise_Guest seems to like being flamed on IRC and various
BBS.
francois doesn't have a precise answer for P_G
Janice [to SusanL]: I had one like that last semester. No
student ever spoke to another unless I forced them into groups.
they talked online, but never aloud.
vivian says, "I've had students talk inappropriately on
PacerForum in class too."
Leslie says, "You could feel the awful tension, the more essays
we read"
janetc [to Pinstriped_Guest]: Pucker up yerlips...
Marcy nods Leslie.
francois [P_G]: never done it, yet at least
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: download a server and a core; compile
to your needs and crank it up
vivian [to Marcy]: But he dropped anyway? That's too bad.
janetc [to Pinstriped_Guest]: and moo.
janetc grins at Pinstriped_Guest.
Turquoise_Guest says, "we've had incident with racist remarks in
anonymous Daedalus conversation, too""
Neon_Guest [to[to Pnstriped Guest] Put your lips together and
hum.
francois [janetc]: oh, yeh, been there, done that! ;- )
You say, "I felt like everyone else in the class learned a lot .
. . at his expense."
Spif [to Pinstriped_Guest]: you need a UNIX system, the MOO
server, a MOO core, and lots of blood sweat and tears. you can
get the software from beta.xerox.com via anonymous FTP.
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: though, it's easier at first to use
someone else's
vivian says, "My class wasn't anonymous and they did it anyway."
janetc grins at Neon_Guest.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "to "to janet Pucker up yer lips???"
Leslie says, "In my other class (MOO and e- mail), we had
Susquehanna students and GWU students hurling insults at one
another."
You say, "What did you do, Vivian?"
vivian [to Spri]: but how much expertise do you need?
SusanL [to Janice]: I missed having computers in the classroom
the entire semester. Couldn't find anyway to divert the
hostility, or apathy (depended on the day).
mday [The Rhetronymical] materializes out of thin air.
Marcy hugs mday.
janetc [to Pinstriped_Guest]: Yup.
Turquoise_Guest says, "viva iaj n, were steps taken against
student?"
mday waves
You say, "What did you do, Leslie?"
vivian [to Marcy]: I ended the conversation and talked to the
class a bit about it.
Tari [to vivan]: rather a lot, and rather a lot of people with
the expertise and the time to keep the thing running.
calypso hi5s mday
You say, "We talked about it, too, but the damage had been done?"
Leslie [to Marcy]: Well- - to some extent, I let the battles rage.
They exchanged some great messages over e- mail.
Spif [to vivian]: you need someone who can compile a program (or
who can spend time learning how to compile it) and you need at
least one person who is experienced with MOO, particularly in
building and programming.
Janice [to SusanL]: After several students dropped, the ones
remaining stayed in their isolated seats the whole time. Had no
desire to get closer to each other unless I instigated it.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "to Leslie when they hurl back and forth
at each other doesn't this relieve pressure and open up hidden
agendas?"
You say, "I try not to intervene directly; I emailed both parties
privately & said watch what you're doing here."
vivian [to Tari]: That's what I thought. One of the
instructorssaid something to me the other day about starting a
MOO in the fall and I thought she was way over her head.
francois . o O ( hmmm, hurling back and forth? yuck! )
Leslie says, "The main brawl happened during our last MOO
session, so there was nothing we could really do. What was
interesting, though, was that a student apologized forher
behavior. Norms were reestablished."
vivian [to Tari]: I bet it takes hours and hours of time too.
mday looks Norm
janetc grins at francois.
Tari [to vivian]: yeah.. the trouble is that it's easy to crank
one up...much harder to find the resources and people with the
time and epertise.
You say, "One of my students wrote a DYNAMITE paper about
homophobia, and she had some people who REALLY wanted to read her
work."
Turquoise_Guest says, "I ogot the sense here that the student
would have been disciplined if (s)he could have been found. The
classs spent the restof the semester talking about such
incidents""
Pinstriped_Guest says, "so she was actually finding out about her
self by expounding in a way, sorry about hrurl"
Spif [to vivian]: it's possible. you need a UNIX machine, a net
connection, UNIX experience, MOO experience, and time. we are
reconstructing our MOO over the summer here at MU.
Marcy nods Pinstripe.
Tari [to vivan]: a lot of people bring them up and soon let them
fold.
francois wipes himself off, no worries, P_G, just a little hurl
between MOOpals
judi [vivian]: rather than start a MOO, find the right
MOO- - there's plenty of well- supported ones
You say, "I think that;s what flaming is often about."
LindaR materializes out of thin air.
SusanL [to Janice]: The question I have is whether or not taking
that group on- line for a week or two would have helped the
situation. Lots of writers with low or no confidence in there.
Hard to say, bu
janetc nods to judi.
mday wonders if you all foreground such incidents and talk about
the rhetoric of why they occur.
Leslie [to Marcy]: Can you expand on that comment (about
flaming)?
vivian [to judi]: I think that's what I'll suggest to her. She
herself doesn't even feel comfortable on a moo.
You say, "No, mday, how do you do it?"
Leslie [to mday]: Can you expand on that too?
NikkiC goes home.
Janice [to SusanL]: It didn't help mine. We had been online
from the start. By online, I mean through DIWE, a lan.
You say, "I think flaming's the Grand Gesture - - the first effort
to be heard."
You say, "Being able to insult someone is powerful."
judi says, "one of the best things about MOOing is the crossing
of geographical boundaries, so people who want a moo for campus
only are missing out on the wonder of the medium"
You say, "They don't, most of them, KNOW that words can be
powerful."
Tari says, "yeah, mday...like one thing i do is before we try to
meet with other classes, we spend some time on line with just
ourselves, and someone always provides the example, and then we
talk aobut the log."
Turquoise_Guest says, "or is flaming dominating more than just
powerful?"
KarlaK [to Marcy]: i agree. it often seems like posturing to me
(the representation of self in everyday lifeelf in every day life
a la goffman
Leslie agrees with judi
Guest materializes out of thin air.
janetc agres totally with judi.
You say, "Creating an ethos."
mday [Leslie]: Well I was at a session a few years ago with
Margaret Daisley and some others where they were talking about
printing out interchanges with rude exchanges and then examining
them as a class for rhetorical strategies and motivations.
sounded
really interesting.
Leslie [to Tari]: The example of what?
LindaR says, "My comp students found analyzing their own text to
be extremely threatening."
vivian [to Marcy]: So maybe the students are playing around with
an ethos that *isn't* themselves...that dares to say what they
wouldn't.
Tari [to Leslie]: beavis and buttheadedness
Leslie nods to mday. Stuff like- - what was the purpose of cursing
someone out?
Spif [to judi]: I agree. I have been trying to develop
cooperative efforts with people elsewhere for our MOO. We are
still basically using it for students here on our campus though.
mday says, "And the more I see, it the more I try to get folks to
open up about why and how things like that happen."
Marcy nods Vivian.
You say, "How do you do it without sounding teacherly, mday?"
mday [viavian]: yes, role- playing can be both bad and good.
Exploring new personae as writers...
KarlaK [to LindaR]: it is threatening, but , i think, important,
to see what your words "sound Like"
calypso wonders what Lindar meant
SusanL [to Janice]: Interesting. I had a few students that
e- mailed and wanted to talk on- line one on one, and a few that
were always logged in, . Guess the question relevant to tonight
is whether or not our "communities" had any charateristics in
comm
on.
vivian says, "I'm amazed they feel safe enough to do it...my
students were on with their own names."
LindaR says, "Yes, afterward, they began examining text in much
more complex ways."
mday tries to be more mentorly, Marcy
You say, "Vivian, I just don't think they think it's real."
Leslie says, "In our last MOO session, we had literal flaming
(using an unfortunate feature object) and even MOO violence. Of
course, MOO violence has different consequences from RL
violence."
KarlaK [to Marcy]: "it"="online discussion"???
SusanL nods Marcy. They perceive it as a game.
You say, "Mday, but how does the topic come up?? If you bring it
up, do they feel censored?"
Neon_Guest [to KarlaK] To ease the threat I've put segments on an
overhead, without identifying the author, and begun by praising
the good before suggesting alternatives.
Gerry says, "they think it's real but don't see the danger"
Spif [to Marcy]: I think that when it came down to their grades,
the students in our class realized it was real.
mday [LindaR]: Yes, it cvan lead to other very productive kinds
of rhetorical analysis.
LindaR says, "But the consequences hurt just as much sometimes."
Marcy nods KarlaK about it.
vivian considers Marcy's point. You may be right there. It's an
irony....but one that does make sense to me when I think about
how confled I sometimes feel about the reality/fantasy question
on MOOs.
francois [lindar]: even more!
vivian . o O ( conflicted )
You say, "Spif, grades are another kind of censorship."
janetc [to LindaR]: Usually.
Spif says, "the game aspect is what makes it such a powerful
learning experience, though. think about young children - they
learn a LOT by playing. adults lose that."
Leslie [to vivian]: What do you mean by conflicted?
LindaR nods vigorusly.
LindaR says, "er."
Leslie agrees with Spif.
mday [Marcy]: well, I don't think so... We approach it as a
groups, as concerned excavators of language, to sift through the
utterances and find motivations and patterns
SusanL nods Spif
Gerry asgrees with Spif
Leslie thinks the gaming/playing environment here is crucial to
the space
janetc agrees with Spif.
calypso [to LindaR]: "have you considered bringing in comic
strips to put next to bits of MOO log. Comics are not real but
they have real world effects
Neon_Guest nods vigorously to Spif
You say, "How do you knwo they're concerned? I'm not contentious
- - just curious."
Locke has disconnected.
mday agrees, and sighs thinking of Piaget...
Gerry spif takes the floor. Go tot the head of the class
Locke has connected.
vivian [to Leslie]: I'm very aware that MOOs (especially MOOs
like lambda) are not the same as rl, but there are times when I'm
as affected by what I read as if it were rl.
francois nods to vivian
Leslie nods to vivian. They how do you make the distinction?
LindaR says, "neat idea."
janetc makes a really sour face and says, 'ACK!!'
francois imitates janetc
Spif [to Marcy]: I agree, I wasn't stating that grades SHOULD be
used to bring the experience home to students. unfortunately
that's what did it for our students this semester.
mday [Marcy]: maybe sensationalism like why everyone crowds
around when there's a fight. They ARE curious to know.
KarlaK says, "my daughter was sexually harrassed at a moo, and
she felt VERY violated"
janetc says, "Sorry. Any mention of lagda..."
Marcy nods mday.
Leslie nods to KarlaK
mday says, "Magma POO!"
janetc nods to KarlaK.
LindaR nods KarlaK
vivian [to Leslie]: Whew! That can be a tough one to answer..I
suppose I remind myself of the difference.
Neon_Guest [to Vivian] words have power in real life and here. A
puch in the nose doesn't hurt nearly as much here.
francois says, "to each her/his own..."
Leslie [to KarlaK]: How di you respond?
mday [The Rhetronymical] causes janetc to fall down laughing.
Leslie smiles to Neon_Guest
You say, "Spif, I don't think grades are a real consequence,
though they can really change behavior . . . I wonder how much
ppl learn if grades change their discourse."
KarlaK [to Leslie]: I encouraged her to write about the
experience for a class she was taking, and we talked about
co- authoring a piece on gendr and moos.
mday yeses. It is the power of a printed word, almost. It seems
to carry more truth value or more punch. We talk about the why
of that, and compare it to other media.
Leslie thinks grades affect student motivation. It's
unfortunate, but true.
Leslie nods to KarlaK
vivian [to Leslie]: Actually sometimes I just suspend the
disbelief...then other times I accentuate the reality to myself.
janetc [to KarlaK]: Cool.
Janice [to Marcy]: How do you mean "grades changing discourse"?
KarlaK says, "she got over it, but was afraid that the perp would
keep it up on e- mail."
francois [Neon]: but the power of some words here can have
lasting, even traumatic effects
Leslie nods to francois
vivian [to KarlaK]: That's scarey.
You say, "They're talking to the person giving the grade,
regulating their behavior by their standards."
janetc [to KarlaK]: That is a concern...a *real* concern.
mday says, "Grades ARE rhetorical, I will have to agree. Like
them I don't, but assign them I must."
Pinstriped_Guest nod francois
Marcy nods mday again.
Leslie [to KarlaK]: And what happened to the perpetrator?
Neon_Guest [to Francois] Same, same real life.
KarlaK says, "but we would have had the perp's system
administrator come down on him if it had persisted"
Gerry says, "My daughter met a guy on a moo and he's coming for a
vistit from Calif. to N.Y. They have excahanged pictures"
Spif says, "I don't like grades either (particularly since I get
poor ones :) but they must unfortunately be dealt with in some
manner."
LindaR says, "I agree with francois. My Asian student was deeply
traumatized by comments from her team about her text on screen."
Janice nods at Marcy's definition.
KarlaK [to Leslie]: he gave it up after a while
Amber_Guest materializes out of thin air.
Spif [to LindaR]: what sort of comments?
Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Guest.
Spif waves at Amber_Guest.
Leslie nods. I think that some kind of "retribution" is crucial
to teaching responsibility.
francois [gerry]: well that should be educational
vivian [to Gerry]: Are you concerned?
LindaR says, "They were making judgments about "right" and
"wrong" English."
KarlaK [to Gerry]: I read about a transcontinental couple who
married after meeting electronically. It's amazing to me that
people would "trust" meetign that way
Leslie says, "If there are no consequences for misdeeds, how do
people feel responsible for what they do?"
Amber_Guest says, "hello all"
LindaR says, "And they weren't accepting at all of a "foreign"
voice."
Tari waves to Amber_Guest.
KarlaK says, "hey Amber"
Gerry says, "not at all . he looks like Doogfie Howser"
You say, "I think it's best if the "retribution" seems like a
genuine, unavoidable consequence of the action."
LindaR says, "I wasn't in the room at the moment."
LindaR says, "So it got a bit heated."
vivian says, "I have a friend who met her so that way (on a
moo)."
Leslie smiles. I know a guy from Austria who married a woman
from Texas. They met first on the MOO.
Spif nods at LindaR.
vivian grins...why not?
francois [karlak]: well one can trust one's own judgement, at the
time, and see if that judgement was right or wrong, after the
fact
KarlaK says, "My mom has a cow if people meet in bars, so I guess
..."
janetc nods to francois.
Amber_Guest says, "i have many "close" friends who i have met on
Moos"
cath says, "Tht must say something about sense of community"
vivian [to Gerry]: That would inspire confidence, I guess.
Spif [to LindaR]: what happened afterwards?
francois [karlak]: soometimes it works, sometimes not, but the
same is true irl, on a different level, for sure
You say, "Anybody met someone who turned out not to be as
expected? Like, they were deceptive on the MOO?"
KarlaK [to francois]: you're right.
francois waves at Marcy
Leslie thinks feelings of community and friendship develop over
time. It's easier to spend time together on the MOO.
janetc [to Marcy]: Not yet.
janetc grins at you.
Gerry says to Vivian. He atr least writes well
KarlaK [to francois]: it's just so much easier to masque your
identity in this space
vivian [to Marcy]: I've heard about lots of cases like that.
Amber_Guest says, "i totally agree Leslie"
Marcy thinks it's MUCH harder to be true to your identity here.
janetc [to KarlaK]: For a while maybe.
francois [karlak]: well, yes and no... yes in terms of the affect
we can see evidently irl, but...
Leslie says, "It's also easier to develop relationships via
e- mail. It's like exchanging letters, but much quicker."
Spif [to KarlaK]: that depends on how you define identity
SCog [Marcy]: which identity?
Marcy also has noticed that she "sees" people as they want to be
seen, which isn't always bad.
Amber_Guest says, "i disagree karlak you can't truely mask the
identity"
Tari hsm Marcy
Neon_Guest [KarlaK] Work on a mask long enought, and hard
enought, and you won't be able to distinguish it from your real
face.
vivian [to Gerry]: Another good sign. I'm asking because my
daughter writes to several guys she's met on the moo.
judi wonders what her identity is
LindaR agrees with Amber_guest
janetc ponders how anyone can *see* identity.
Leslie smiles. I wonder if we see people on the MOO as we want
to see them, rather than as they actually are.
francois [karlak]: but no, irl has its own deceptions and
disappointments.... face value isn't all that it seems
Janice knows what Judi's identity is.
Amber_Guest says, "it is an asuumption to think you can be
"anything" on net"
Neon_Guest says, "And on your spelling errors too."
Guest materializes out of thin air.
janetc smiles at Leslie.
Spif waves at Guest.
vivian [to Leslie]: I think we do to some extent.
Eric [to Leslie]: "do we see people IRL as they actually are?
KarlaK says, "well, ok i meant something like intentions"
janetc [to Leslie]: Good study there, huh?
You say, "MY husband & I have met people I "met" on the MOO
first, and his impressions are quite different than mine; he sees
what they preoject, I see what they WANT to project."
Guest smiles
LindaR [to Spif]: Thanks.
Amber_Guest says, "Leslie dont we always see people as we see
them"
LindaR grins.
Leslie smiles. I think I project less with people IRL, when I
can see their faces. With MOO folks, so much of what I know of
them comes from my own imagination.
Eric wonders if actuality exists in the traditional sense
francois nods to Les
Tari says, "actually, although it's sometimes a bit surprising to
meet people you've only known online, what i find really jarring
is the stuff they burst out with about what they expeced me to be
like"
SCog nods eric
Marcy looks askance at Eric.
Tari says, "then you really get a sense of what's missing in
here."
LindaR nods a lot!
calypso agrees with Eric aslo
vivian says, "I think it's easier to see a reflection of what we
want on the moo because the input is limited to words (instead of
more senses)."
janetc [to Leslie]: Yet ppl constantly question each other to get
more sence of the other.
Leslie smiles. Hmm. So- - what are you like anyway, Tari? ;- )
francois grins at Tari... has just had a rather depressing
experience of that sort irl
LindaR says, "ANd also about how the imagination has played such
a strong part."
Tari says, "well, 'missing' is the wrong word...different,
maybe."
Amber_Guest says, "nothing is missing here it is simly differnt"
Spif has to be going.
Spif waves.
LindaR waves to Spif.
francois waves to Spif
janetc has disconnected.
vivian waves to Spif
SCog waves to spif.
Spif says, "nice meeting you all!"
SusanL waves Spif
Marcy waves Spif. Thanks for coming,.
Spif goes home.
Leslie waves bye to Spif
Pinstriped_Guest waves spif
Neon_Guest says, "See ya, Spif."
KarlaK feels a breeze from all the spif- waving
Leslie laughs
Amber_Guest says, "the experience of anything on net is simply
different - just as irl experiences are always differnt - take
netsex for example"
vivian chuckles
Janice chuckles at Karla.
SusanL says, "so do we imagine that we have created a community,
what with all of the waving, emoting, and all?"
Tari [to Amber_Guest]: oh, must we?
Tari eyes herself warily.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "it seems as if the darker side of people
emerge when theyn are anonympous or in ooo mode"
francois shivers, pulls down his t- shirt
Leslie smiles to Amber. Take it from who?
You say, "And if we've imagined it, is it true?"
LindaR says, "have you ever entered a moo classroom and *not*
spoken?"
LindaR says, "Students get mighty upset about it sometiems."
Amber_Guest says, "no it is "true" whatever that is"
Marcy has never entered ANY classroom and not spoken.
vivian [to LindaR]: Because you're the teacher?
vivian grins at Marcy.
Leslie smiles. What about students who enter classrooms and
don't speak, but enter MOO classrooms and participate actively?
LindaR says, "Partly... I just watned to catch a single line of
conversation."
calypso laughs thinking of Marcy and her comment
SCog has entered moo spaces and not spoken, except to the help
facility.
LindaR says, "Didn't speak fast enough."
KarlaK [to Leslie]: that's me...
Turquoise_Guest [A[B
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: please don't think i'm making fun (as
the queen of bad typing, i couldn't possibly), but anonympous and
ooo mode are great words.
LindaR says, "But it was my fault"
LindaR says, "I intruded on a working team."
mday feels a mirthquake coming on.
Amber_Guest says, "yes i have had my students in Moos for the
last month and many are much more vocal"
Leslie laughs at mday's pun
Marcy notices anonympous and laughs. Good one.
vivian Laughs at mday's word.
Tari says, "anonympous: when you get uppity with ppl you don't
know"
SCog says, "Amber, do you have your own moo, or do you take them
somewhere?"
KarlaK rotfl
You say, "pompously uppity."
LindaR [to Amber_Guest]: Yes, and the distance between teacher
and student is dramatically reduced.
Leslie [to Tari]: Clever pun!
SusanL lol at Tari's definition.
mday can't keep up. these darn students keep bothering me!
Amber_Guest says, "we went to several differnt MOO cummunities
and experienced differntly"
Leslie [to Amber_Guest]: How were the communities different?
francois grins at Amber
SCog nods Amber. Where did you take them?
Dave materializes out of thin air.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "never did learnto type"
Amber_Guest says, "well you dont identify yourself but roles
still persist in cyberspace"
LindaR nods Amber.
You say, "No prob, pinstripe, we just make typos rilly fast
around here."
vivian nods to Amber.
Amber_Guest (#700) is currently connected from
miavx1.acs.muohio.edu.
Leslie wonders how feature objects and the MOO environment affect
the sense of the community established
SusanL says, "just fire your typist, Pinstripe."
Amber_Guest says, "they had different needs and desires (the
communties) some liked having guests others did not"
SCog says, "tangentially related, but I heard a good cyberstory
today."
Marcy looks at SCog
LindaR listens for a good cyberstory.
KarlaK says, "go SCog go!"
Neon_Guest [Amber] Role IRL are even more persistent.
Leslie says, "For example, I've *heard* that you can undress
people on Lambda. I assume youcant' do that here."
vivian [to Amber_Guest]: What did you decide?
SCog says, "at a local university, the secretaries print the
email for the econ faculty and put it in their mailboxes."
The housekeeper arrives to cart janetc off to bed.
Pinstriped_Guest smile Susan
Marcy lololol
Leslie [to SCog]: Doesn't that defeat the purpose of e- mail?
vivian [to Leslie]: It depends on several things.
mday [Leslie]: I'll bet Libby Reid's thesis on IRC communities
would have something to say about that phenomenon. I'll bet they
help BUILD the sense of shared community...
Neon_Guest removes his watch.
SCog [leslie]: does, to me.
francois kicks off his sandals
You say, "sense of shared something, anyway."
mday tightens his tie
mday [Marcy]: well, common ground?
KarlaK [to SCog]: we have a few faculty in our department who get
printouts of all email.
vivian clears her throat.
SusanL says, "one of our faculty members called our dept sec. and
asked her to log in, download, and print all e- mail. amounted to
about 80 pgs of txt."
Amber_Guest says, "we did not decide - it was an experince where
the students entered communites which were strange to them - many
things occurred - but they learned that emotions do happen here -
"
Marcy thinks that's not much mail.
francois [susanL]: noblesse oblige!
mday [SusanL]: I am recoiling in horror. Why print it?
SCog smiles at marcy. "I know what you mean."
Dave disappears suddenly for parts unknown.
Leslie nods to francois guest. Very strong emotions, in fact.
francois loves his delete key, dreams of F9
vivian [to Amber_Guest]: Was that what you were aiming for?
mday cries for all the poor dead trees
judi [scog]: was there a punch line?
Leslie meant nods to amber_guest
LindaR [to mday]: Some of our faculty are scared to death of
email.
judi grins
Amber_Guest says, "yes i have "better " friends on net then some
irl"
calypso has disconnected.
SCog regrets judi. "That *was* the punchline.
Marcy has awfully good net- friends.
francois hears a rim shot off in the distance
judi heeeees
vivian grins at Amber...and nods.
mday [LindaR]: Oh here too, very definitely. But they have to
use it. Or be outta da loop...
SusanL [to mday]: well, the fac mem didn't have amodem and
didn't want to deal with coming out of her office and up two
flights of stairs to get to the lab. no good reason for that...
Pinstriped_Guest says, "do the students need tio print their
email?"
Amber_Guest says, "it puts into question for the student
different form of subjectivity"
Janice knows some of her colleagues are outa da loop.
LindaR [to mday]: Some here prefer to be out of the loop. It's an
uphill battle soemtimes.
francois [linda]: a big A- men to that!
mday [Pinstriped]: no generally, no. But it depends on what they
need to do with it.
vivian [to Amber_Guest]: Yes...and it highlights the power fo
text.
SCog [marcy]: these aren't communities - they're loops?
Locke looks loopy.
Amber_Guest says, "the question is are you who you are in a MOO
or irl - or is that not the question at all"
mday loops dee loops
vivian gives a loopy grin.
Janice laughs at the loops.
Pinstriped_Guest says, "do students ned to have a book or can
they read from a computer?"
vivian [to Amber_Guest]: both.
LindaR laps up some loop soop.
You say, "Here we go loopy- loo . . ."
KarlaK says, "sometimes I print my e- mail, but only about 1 in
50- 100 messages..."
LindaR laughs.
Amber_Guest says, "yes vivian it shows the power of discourse
tremendously"
vivian giggles
SCog says, "I thought it was loop de loo.""
cath says, "But aren't we really each mre than one person
anyway?"
KarlaK says, "hang on loopy..."
Guest goes home.
LindaR says, "Most of mine goes to weird black holes on the hard
drive."
francois nods to cath, eggs- ackley
Leslie wonders if cath has a multiple personality disorder. ;- )
LindaR [to cath]: Always!
Amber_Guest says, "yes cath but student think they are one person
for the most part"
Janice eyes cath cath cath cath
Leslie smiles and wonders if his own evil twin will come out.
;- )
LindaR says, "And expect teachers to be but one..."
francois [amber]: and we're here/there to make sure they get rid
of that notion pronto!
cath says, "I think using a MOO sometimesw lets other sides of
our peronas emerge"
vivian says, "Yes, Cath, and maybe that's one of the otehr
fascinations of the mOO. We can emphasize different parts of who
we are."
Amber_Guest laughs
Tari [to Pinstriped_Guest]: i've noticed when i put texts on- line
a few students print them in order not to have to sit reading at
the computer...which makes sense, really...you can take the
printout on the bus.
mday does not enjoy reading from screens. Does use books and
printouts.
SCog says, "though I teach a doppelganger course, and require a
newsgroup, and the students get it right away about how they
construct personalities."
Leslie nods to LindaR. I've been amazed that students can't see
the human being outside the "authority figure".
LindaR says, "How true."
francois nods to his three others selves (quadroganger, anyone?)
Pinstriped_Guest says, "so what happens to the paperless
classroom?"
vivian [to SCog]: That sounds fascinating.
mday nards it all. Time to go teach.
mday waves!
LindaR says, "They get so easily upset if I don't answer all 150
messages within a day or so."
Leslie hugs mday bye
SCog [vivian]: thanks, it's fun.
vivian waves bye to mday.
Pinstriped_Guest mday
SCog waves mday. bye!
Amber_Guest says, "Yes Leslie on the MOO they see you as a human
because they dont know whether you are male or female - teacher
or student"
Marcy waveys mday.
And then along comes Gracie ......
Pinstriped_Guest waves mday
mday says, "Bye!"
mday has disconnected.
Gracie [huh?] waves to mday [The Rhetronymical].
vivian grins at SCog...Isn't it great to teach a course like
that~
LindaR [to Pinstriped_Guest]: Well... we've cut down no more than
a single sapling this semester.
Janice [to LindaR]: Use a distribution list- - reply to all at
once.
francois smiles at Gracie
Marcy waveys Gracie
Gracie waveys all and huggies all....
LindaR [to Pinstriped_Guest]: But we have generated more than
1000 pages of text.
SusanL [to Leslie]: Mine are amazed when they walk in my office
and hear that I have music playing and am joking around with the
Writing Center tutors. they can't deal with the challenge to
their expecatations.
vivian waveys hi to Gracie.
Leslie nods to SusanL
SusanL waves Gracie
You say, "Well, please keep talking, but let me show that last
slide again . . ."
LindaR [to Janice]: These are individual questions and papers...

Marcy shows slide #5.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Please be aware that tonight's session is being logged.
At the Computers and Writing Conference in El Paso,
participants in a pre- conference workshop will use this
text as part of a larger text they will create, a text on
communities in cyberspace. We will e- mail all
participants
and ask for permission to use your e- words; if you have
logged on as a guest, please e- mail Marcy Bauman at

marcyb@umd.umich.edu

with your name & your guest identity so we can contact
you.
(That address will be repeated at the end of the
session.)

We now pause briefly for introductions.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Pinstriped_Guest says, "this has been fun, bye"
Eric [to LindaR]: I reckon that's a function of the classroom.
even if you're not literally *in* one, the assumptions about
authority folllow. thus, you're the hub of all, you're the
knower, you have to provide the answers, especially to email!
The housekeeper arrives to cart calypso off to bed.
Amber_Guest says, "things like the icons humanize authority a
bit"
LindaR [to SusanL]: Yes, it does surprise them.
Leslie [to Amber_Guest]: Icons?
vivian waves to Pinstriped.
Gerry wanders off off to bed
Amber_Guest says, "like :)"
Leslie [to Eric]: How do you disrupt that expectation?
The housekeeper arrives to cart Gerry off to bed.
% Connection to (unnamed1) closed by foreign host.
- - - - No world - - - -

Marcy Bauman
Writing Program
University of Michigan- Dearborn
4901 Evergreen Rd.
Dearborn, MI 48128

email: marcyb@umd.umich.edu

Evergreen Rd.
Dearborn, MI 48128

email: marcyb@umd.umich.edu

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